Keynote: SPEECH WITH GEORGE SOROS
presented by Miriam O'Callaghan.
 Miriam O'Callaghan (RTE): Thanks for that Nik. My name is Miriam O'Callaghan presenter of Prime-Time the flagship current affairs programme on RTE which is Ireland's national public service broadcaster. I am delighted at this stage of the evening althoug you're probably all weary by now, to be introducing one of the most fascinating men alive today in the world, George Soros. He is of course chairman of the Soros Fund Management LLC and founder of the Open Society Institute. He is joining us from New York and just before I go to you Mr Soros, I would like to say that we are very lucky to be here today in the beautiful city that you were born in. Many of you will know much about him but in brief let me just remind you of a few succinct points about Mr Soros's career. Born here in Budapest, educated in Britain, he moved to the United States in 1956. He made a vast fortune through an international investment fund he founded and managed back as far as 1981. He was hailed as the world's greatest money manager by the bible of the trade then, Institutional Investor which wrote and I quote "as Borg is to tennis, Jack Nicklaus is to golf and Fred Astaire is to tap-dancing so is George Soros to money management" he became an absolute legend in 1992 with the speculation against the British Pound, many of us will remember. George Soros has been an active philanthropist since 1979 with more than 50 countries benefiting from his Open Society Institute. He has been particularly anxious to fund journalism and independent media in particular in many of these countries. Mr Soros thank you very much for joining us today, thank you for waiting we are all enjoying your beautiful city, if you would like to deliver your keynote address.
George Soros: Well I don't have a keynote address for you I am very happy to participate in your conference and I am ready to speak on any subject that is of interest to you. I think that media is tremendously important and is under constant threat from political and commercial pressures. And it has tremendous influence, I have a close relative or not a relative, somebody who has actually saved my mother's life in Hungary. She was an old lady she was really a wonderful, wonderful person. I just met her recently and under the influence of the media that she reads and listens to, she for instance became very much against the Rome or, against gypsies. It was really a shock to me to see how a person can be influenced by the media to which they are exposed. So I think that a journalist has a tremendous responsibility and it is a very difficult one to live up to. My foundation, one of its major objectives is to support independent media or one of our most successful efforts is the immediate development loan fund which now operates globally and I have commend it to your attention and we do a lot of things for maintaining press freedom and we would like to do more. So I am at your disposal.
Miriam O'Callaghan: That sounds wonderful I like billionaires at my disposal. But let me ask you first about Russia, you have poured money into Russia and in June you announced you would be drastically cutting back on that money. With the arrest now of Mikhail Khodorkovsky and also concerns in the past few days by Roman Abramovic how concerned are you generally at the moment about Putin's Russia?
 George Soros: I am very concerned, first of all the media situation has deteriorated tremendously. As you probably know Russia now ranks very low in terms of media freedom particularly broadcast media has had its independence more or less squeezed out and is continuing to be under increased pressure. And then this incident with Khodorkovsky especially is a manifestation of the state reasserting its control. Putin when he became President spoke about the dictatorship of the law this means that during the turbulent years practically everybody broke the law some way or another and the state can then decide or President Putin who to prosecute. And choosing Khodorkovsky sense a very important message because he was actually or is the most enlightened of the oligarchs and he has tried to establish his independence from the Presidency by, first of all he set up a foundation exclusively modelled on my foundation and doing a very good job continuing the programmes which we started. And secondly he ran a transparent company and attracted a lot of foreign investors and he was negotiating to sell a significant stake in that company to some American oil companies. So by cracking down on him at this moment Putin is sending an unmistakable signal that you cannot be independent of the state that you must toe the line. And I think that all the capitalists, all the oligarchs will have gotten the message.
Miriam O'Callaghan: If we turn from Russia and then I will go to the audience because there are a lot if people who want to talk to George Soros, if we look at George W Bush for the moment recently on BBC Radio 4 you said, "the United States will only stop pursuing extremist policies like they pursued in Iraq if there is a regime change". You are completely unapologetic there about what you think should happen to George Bush?
George Soros: I have very strong feelings particularly if you just focus on the Bush doctrine, basically it has two tenets, two major tenets. One, that America must maintain its undisputed military superiority at all costs. And secondly, that America has the right of pre-emptive action. And if you put these two tenets together you arrive at two classes of sovereignty, the sovereignty of the United States that's not hindered by any international treaty or obligation. And the sovereignty of all the other states which are subject to the Bush doctrine. So this is reminiscent of George Orwell, you know, Animal Farm, that all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others. The other disturbing thing about the Bush administration is the doublespeak because really you need to be an Orwellian to follow the statements both in justifying the invasion of Iraq and then explaining, and all the other statements. And that applies not only to President George Bush but even more to people like vice-president Cheney.
Miriam O'Callaghan: But with respect George Soros there are people who would say that it is none of your business actually who runs Russia or who runs the United States and that in fact armed with a few billion dollars and a nod and wink from the US State Department and a handful of NGOs, you George Soros just because you are so wealthy can topple governments.
George Soros: Well I wish I could but I can only support people who are standing up. So we have actually had some influence through the foundation by mobilising civil society, we did play a part in say, the regime change in Slovakia, when Metja was defeated, in Croatia when Tudjman was defeated and in Yugoslavia when Milosevic was defeated and most recently there were elections in Georgia where my foundation was very active in mobilising civil society. In organising an exit poll for instance we showed that the opposition actually won the elections. Now the actual results showed the government somewhat ahead but nevertheless you cannot steal too many votes and particularly if you have things like exit polls which I think are very useful instruments, there are limits to which you can cheat on elections. And I am ready to try to do whatever I can to mobilise society in America because I think that today for us to endorse the Bush doctrine would be a very dangerous thing because Bush did not come into office with that doctrine he was advocating a humble foreign policy, so now we have to either endorse or reject that doctrine. And I think it's very important for the world and for America that we should reject it.
Miriam O'Callaghan: Okay George Soros I'm going to go to the floor now because there are lots of people who would like to ask a question, the first person who's going to ask you a question is Ulla Turkelson who is from TV2 in Denmark.
Ulla Terkelson (TV2 Denmark): I would like to come back to Russia you said you were worried about the drop in the freedom of the press and on the other hand we heard that Russia is getting a better credit rating. When do you think there will be an unfortunate linking with the lack of press freedom and an economic decline because economic stagnation and no press freedom is not so charming a cocktail. We just heard from our charming hostess that it you could make or break governments is there something you could do to help the poor struggling Russians to get richer and to get press freedom?
George Soros: First of all there is no direct relationship between economic prosperity and democracy. You have a very prosperous countries which are not very democratic, take Singapore, so there is no direct link. And secondly I certainly don't have any powers that are ascribed to me, I certainly can't dominate markets, I did play a part in the devaluation of Sterling but that was only because it would have happened without me as well. I can't ever go against the market, the market is certainly more powerful than I am. I am merely a participant. Now I have become a rather influential participant and I think I make a special point of not using that power either for my personal benefit or even to advocate a political case, so don't count on me to change the situation in Russia.
Steve Anderson (ITV): Good afternoon Mr Soros. I don't know whether you're aware of the situation in Britain where the government has just allowed the companies that form ITV which is Britain's biggest commercial network, have allowed the companies to merge into one company to form one ITV. The Communications Bill is about to become an Act which will allow American media companies to buy British commercial stations, do you think that it is inevitable now that there will be an American buyer for ITV?
George Soros: First of all I wasn't even aware of that and I wouldn't be able to answer your question but I do think that the concentration of the media is a very dangerous development and as you know in the United States there was a proposal to lift the limits which I think is very reprehensible.
Helena Steinert (SVT Sweden): Mr Soros as you heard I'm from Sweden and as you might know we had a referendum in Sweden regarding the Euro and the Swedish people decided to say no to the Euro. I would like to hear your opinion on that both from an economic and political point of view. Was that a wise decision or not? And I would also appreciate if you could say a few words about your opinion about the important for the Euro for the European countries that have joined.
George Soros: I think that you can't really have a common market in the long run without a common currency and I think that Sweden has taken a certain chance by staying out of the Euro that then maybe some speculative attack by my successors, or the currency speculators. And that could have detrimental effects so it is a risky decision I think.
Rick Thompson (former BBC news editor): Mr Soros it is a pleasure to talk you, since I left the BBC a few years ago I've done quite a lot of training and development work in central and eastern Europe and some of the time with the help of the OSI and as I say I have always admired the way it works for democracy. You are a big promoter of the ideals and practices of democratic government and democratic media I wondered if you share the fear that some people have expressed recently that there is a kind of growing democratic deficit in the democratic world. The European elections coming up next June will be the biggest democratic exercise in Europe's history but probably two out of three of the citizens of Europe won't bother to vote. And the number of the other votes both in Europe and in the United States are relatively low turnouts young people show great cynicism some extremists get elected because the middle ground doesn't bother to vote. I wonder if you believe whether democracy has a long future or whether there is some other system?
George Soros: Well you are right about this disillusionment but I don't think that we have anything better in its place. It is a very imperfect, you know Churchill's adage, it's still the best thing we have but it's very precarious. And I am very worried for instance in the United States where I feel very strongly that if people fully understood the implications of President Bush's policy they would vote him out of office and I'm worried that they may not see it. That the Orwellian doublespeak and propaganda will sway them and this is where the media comes in. When you look at what happened after September 11th where nobody dared to raise a critical voice it is not a very different from the situation in Russia or other countries and this is where the media comes in and there is a lot to be worried about as far as democracy is concerned.
Bill Wheatley (NBC): Mr Soros you are known as one of the world's great financiers and at present there is a great debate going on about financing the reconstruction of Iraq, large amounts of money are being voted in the United States and some other countries at the same time there are those that feel that the very high cost should be financed through the revenues of Iraqi oil as that prospers at some point. I wonder if you have a view on that?
George Soros: Well I certainly do. I think we are engaging in nation-building in Iraq and I think we are going about it in the wrong way. And frankly with my foundation I am in that business that's what my foundations are doing and that's why I'm so upset about our actions in Iraq. This is an American managed operation, with contracts to American companies. You have got 75% unemployment in Iraq and the companies that have the contracts import cheap labour from Bangladesh, this is no way to go about it. This is giving nation-building a bad name and that is what upsets me because there is so much more and so much better that than it could be done. This American high handedness and reliance on American contracts is really counter-productive.
Phil Harding (BBC World Service): Mr Soros I would like to ask you about China. How big an impact do you think China will have on the world economy, how quickly and do you share the view of those who think that inevitably China is headed towards being the world's number-one economic power?
 George Soros: The last time I heard that was in connection with Japan. If you recall 10 years ago we were all trying to imitate Japan and learned the secret of its success and in the last 10 years Japan has been absolutely flat, no growth at all whereas China has grown by 150%. These things are not linear but there is no question that today China is the engine of the global economy. It has the best of all possible worlds right now and a lot depends on how they manage it and they really have to have a transition to a more open political system because if they don't then all this wonderful growth eventually will come to a very sad end. This is what happened in Indonesia which had 20 years of growth but no political reform and when there was a financial crisis the whole system collapsed and Indonesia had a tremendous setback. Now China joined the World Trade Organisation under that treaty they will have to open their financial system and there is a strange fact that financial systems that work very well in a closed system collapse when you open it up, this is what also happened in Japan. So China has to move towards a more open system with a greater freedom of speech, of information and of choice. And fortunately I think the current leadership is aware of that and is moving in that direction. So I am actually very optimistic about China provided to the leadership takes the bold steps that are necessary to bring about political reforms as well as our economic development.
Phil Harding: Mr Soros can I just come back at you on that. Earlier on I understood you, when talking about Russia to say that she didn't necessarily see a link between democratic reform and economic growth but you think that that does pertain in the case of China?
George Soros: You have economic growth in China but you don't have democracy, you don't have elections and so on. What I'm saying is that in the long run that will bring about a crash because right now a large part of the population are is happy because of economic progress but this one last for ever and when there is a crisis, let's say a financial crisis or an economic setback and if you don't have the mechanism for the expression of discontent then that discontent may come out in the form of a revolution leading to a collapse of the system. There is that connection between economic and political development.
Eugen Babau (TOL, Czech Republic): Yes Mr Soros, going back to the media here, your foundations have obviously done a lot of tremendous work in central and eastern Europe over the past 12 years or so but as I understand it you are now re shifting or refocusing your attention on media programmes in other countries. The question is, what if anything could you or are you planning to do to try and effect positive change in the media in the US for instance?
George Soros: It so happens that I was at a meeting last night talking about it and I don't think that I can do very much on that. It is a complicated situation and I think that it requires legislative remedies, I think that you need much more free time for political debate at the time of elections in order to reduce the cost of running for office. And you would need greater diversity, limitations on ownership and concentration of power. Those two things come immediately to mind but they require political action and not something that a philanthropically minded capitalist can do.
Alex Gerlis (BBC): Mr Soros I'm in charge of journalism training strategy throughout the BBC and I'm wondering what you see your goal as in terms of training journalists throughout former Eastern Europe, is it to actually turn them into truly independent journalists or is it independent to an extent? I asked that because of what you're saying before about influencing the results in three elections that you named, is it that you want to get them up to a certain point about being independent and then use them influencing because this seems to be a connection between the training that your foundation does and also the ability to influence and you named three specific elections, Croatia and Georgia......
George Soros: First of all let me compliment the BBC because we work together and I think you do a fabulous job in training journalists and I believe that the training is genuinely to make them independent but even more to make them competent and to raise the standard of discussion. I don't believe that there is any kind of political doctrine that is being inculcated in them and if there is I would like to hear about it and correct it. I am sure that that is not the case.
Rick Thompson: I just wondered if you would be kind enough, simply talking about quality of journalism and your efforts you put into developing journalism. Do you want to just give us your portrait of the perfect broadcast journalist. What you think is the main fault in broadcast journalism that you would want to rectify?
George Soros: It depends on which country you are dealing with. In the countryies where we are training they are just not terribly professionally qualified, they do need training in how to do it. In the United States where I occasionally watch television, though not very often, the trouble is I think that the announcers or the anchors tend to be very glib, going for sound bites and there is a time pressure and a pressure to hold the audience when there is so much competing stuff. So there isn't an in-depth exploration of any subject and its all superficial and quite confusing.
Sandra Pralong (United Nations Development Programme): Mr Soros we are sitting here in Budapest and I am wondering whether, we are sitting here with 400 media executives and broadcasters, and I'm wondering whether you think there is enough news from this part of the world on the air around the world. Whether the lessons of transitions have been heard enough?
George Soros: I think that there are very interesting lessons and there are very interesting subjects. Take the elections in Georgia, I think that's a really important development for that country and it's also very hopeful one that elections do have an influence and there has been very little coverage either of the positive side or of the cheating.
Tao Ye (CCTV China): Since I'm a journalist from China, thank you very much for your concern about China just now. I remember that you are you mentioned that there is no direct relation between democracy and economic growth so how do you explain your concern about Chinese political reform? And I know that there is a big pressure about Chinese currency in the United States, do you think this is fair for Chinese currency evaluation?
George Soros: I can only repeat briefly what I said before that as China and the Chinese economy opens itself up particularly the financial system it is liable to collapse unless there is much greater freedom of information and it institutional reform creating an open financial system. A system that is capable of functioning in global financial markets. And that goes directly to the question of currency because if you allow free movement of capital into and out of China today the system would collapse because of the accumulated bad debts in the state owned banks.
Uros Lipuscek (RTV Slovenia): Mr Soros I'm from Slovenia and we will become together with the rest of some other Eastern European countries members of an enlarged European Union next year. What effect will this have on the new members and on the European Union at all in the future?
George Soros: I think it is a very positive development both for Slovenia and for the European Union. It will require some adjustment because actually I think that Slovenia has capped its economy rather close and being a member there were no longer be possible.
Ann Macmillan (CBC): I'd be very interested in hearing your views about major economic trends in the world, firstly your main concerns and secondly any hot tips for impoverished journalists?
George Soros: I think that there is a global economic recovery on the way but I think that it will be relatively short-lived and constrained because of the budgetary and trading balance in the United States which will lead to a stop-go economy. That is to say, when the US economy gets going and employment begins to increase, the pressure on interest rates will become greater, interest rates will go up and it will abort the recovery. So I expect sort of sub-standard growth for the next several years.
Keith Bowers (formerly BBC): Hello Mr Soros, I do some training in the Balkans and other parts of the world. One of the things that keeps me going is when you work with young journalists who get a taste of independent journalism and are inspiring with their courage and determination. I can think of several individuals who have inspired me. Have you got any individuals, people who you know about, through your foundation who keep you going and keep the flame alive as it were?
George Soros: Yes but they tend to be rather older actually, that's probably because I am older and more likely to talk to older people, some of the Polish journalists from the Solidarity time and so on. I had a similar experience, sometimes I wondered why am I doing all of the things that I'm doing and then I go and visit the foundations and I meet the people there and it does really give me a big lift that it is really worth doing it.
Margaret Ward (RTE): Mr Soros I wanted to ask you about the Balkans and particularly about the country's of the former Yugoslavia. He said about your involvement the elections there in the past, we will have a situation next year with these countries will perhaps feel it even more excluded from Europe because they will be neighbours of people like Hungary who are members of the European Union. And we still have Bosnia and Kosovo which are effectively international protectorates. Do you believe that the situation in the Balkans has finally stabilised or do you still see potential for further problems?
George Soros: I see considerable potential for problems and I think that the European Union is remiss in not taking a more proactive role. You know, I am so busy criticising the Bush administration I hardly have time for the European Union but I must say that they are very slow, they are maintaining the status quo and you've got a few unresolved problems. The problem of Kosovo, the union between Serbia and Montenegro and the structure of Bosnia which is really the Dayton agreement, requires some simplification. So those are the three major issues and the countries concerned can't do it on their own they need the clear leadership of the European Union. This is European Union territory, America is leaving it to the EU and if this it more co-operative approach that one hopes for in the world is going to work then the EU has to, go out of its way to resolve these issues. Particularly in Serbia things are politically going in the wrong direction and the issue of Kosovo has a lot to do with it. And in Macedonia also there is a pressure from extremists both on the Macedonian and the Albanian side to break-up the country. So you need the European Union come out and say that the borders are unalterable, there is this need and I'm glad you raise the question.
Miriam O'Callaghan: Thank you Mr Soros, we'll finish just now but there is just one brief question for me. When I was reading about you today and yesterday you were on the record as saying that by the time you are 80 you will have given away all of your money, are you still going to do that?
George Soros: No. Actually I've changed my mind I am ready to revise my views but the funny thing that I have discovered it is that people respect me because I have money so if I gave up all my money I would probably lose the influence that I currently have.
Miriam O'Callaghan: I think you made the right decision Mr Soros and thank you very very much for joining us today.
Transcript by Tony Callaghan
Photo Credits: Piotr Azia, EBU; Balint Eder, Brill Productions; and Mark Milstein, North Foto
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