Charles Groenhuijsen: Mr. Ahmed in Washington, you heard the discussion over here. The gentleman from Paris said, let's try to have the media portray the complex picture that is the actual reality instead of just stereotypes. What's your reaction?

Akbar Ahmed: We must be aware that we're living in the age of globalisation, and we haven't really touched on that. We've been talking about Dutch Muslims and Arab Muslims and so on. A Muslim today really needs to be understood in this globalised world of ours. If something happens in Guantanamo Bay - there's a rumour of the Koran being desecrated - there are riots in Afghanistan and Pakistan almost within a couple of hours.

We need to be able to see even the discussion we're having about Miss Ali's film in that context. I respect every artist to express themselves in paint and on the screen and so on. [Applause]. But ultimately Miss Ali's attempt to awaken the discussion around women, which is so crucial, in Islam, in the Muslim world, will be counterproductive, because the Muslim world is going to look at this and simply say: This is yet another proof and evidence of Islamophobia that, in a sense, is simply reinforcing the stereotypes.

I need to point constantly to the problems within the Muslim world - the anger that's taking place in the Muslim world because of the ongoing problems with the Palestinians, the Kashmiris, the Chechens - we don't hear about this at all. The gap between the rich and the poor, the poor leadership in the Muslim world, the lack of vision, the lack of wisdom, the lack of compassion in the Muslim world, the appalling literacy figures in the Muslim world - in that context, with that anger, with that violence ready to explode, we have a film showing the Koran on the naked body. Now, any anthropologist will tell you, it's simply throwing a match into a petrol can. So I would say that if you want to educate the Muslim world, and move it in a certain direction, the idea and emotion is to be applauded; the method needs to be much more sensitive to the needs and traditions and culture of the Muslim world. [Applause]

Ayaan Hirsi Ali: What happened to artistic freedom then?

Charles Groenhuijsen: We'll get back to this. We're talking about the portrayal of Muslim countries. One of the issues is the other way around: How do they portray us? You're talking about access on both sides - do we get access over there? Do they get access here? Let's talk about the access that Arab journalists, Muslim journalists, get in their own countries. And, for example, what kind of access do female reporters get? We have an example of this - film by Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy from Pakistan. Let's look at it for a second.

[Videotape]

Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy : Back in Peshawar, I'd heard that the MMA's most ardent supporters came from among the tens of thousands active in the party's youth wing, and reputed to be the ones defacing signboards. Which led me to Khurshid Alam, a professor of business at a local college, and leader within the local political youth wing. I first asked if he supported the Taliban government's ideology.

Khurshid Alam : I agree with my leaders who say the Taliban were not wrong.

Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy : You're telling me that the Taliban were not unjust. So let me read some of the Taliban's laws concerning women, and you tell me if you agree with them or not: Women cannot buy something from a male shopkeeper?

Khurshid Alam : It is correct.

Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy : Women cannot laugh outside their homes. Is this law right?

Khurshid Alam : That is correct according to Islam.

Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy : The windows of women's houses should be blackened. Is this right?

Khurshid Alam : I have never seen an example in all my studies that they made women into prisoners like that.

Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy : I had also brought some Pakistani ads to show to Khurshid. You tell me whether the ads are correct according to Islam. Given the ongoing destruction of ads, I wondered how he'd respond. According to you, is this ad fine? Do you think this is with Islam? [Image of young men and women socialising together.]

Khurshid Alam : I say these things are not included with Islam.

Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy : And this? [Image of an unveiled woman in Western attire]

Khurshid Alam : Is there a signboard like this? So what would you say if I made you into such an object? Let me show it to the others as well.

Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy : I'm asking you.

Khurshid Alam : But I want to ask you as well. If you are made into such an object, will you be happy?

Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy : No.

Khurshid Alam : If you yourself are not happy, then why are you asking me?

Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy : I am just asking you, there are many like that …

Khurshid Alam : You can go on asking questions, but I can ask too. If you were this model, and everyone was looking at you, Sharmeen, how would you feel?

Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy : But I haven't chosen to be [a model]; however, this woman has.

Khurshid Alam : This woman is Pakistani?!

Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy : She is Pakistani.

Khurshid seems stunned at the prospect that this model could be a Pakistani woman.